Debate 024: Conrad and Blair discuss Cafeteria Christianity

Conrad fizzled on me. He was all excited about proving he wasn’t a Cafeteria Christian and when it came down to it the promised email “tomorrow” never materialized.

 

Conrad Rebuttal #001:

My name is Conrad and i’m currently a bible college student. I’m not really sure that this will get through but i sure hope it does. I’m warning you ahead of time that yes you probably are more schooled in mankind’s intelligence and our probably going to be more able to sound intelligent. But i’m going to propose this thought. I gurantee you that deep down inside you not only know there is a God, but the one God that gives you the most trouble, the one from Christianity, the one directly associated with Jesus Christ, is the one true God, three in one if you may. From reading some of your rebuttals I can tell that you are well schooled in the bible but even as you view Christians as “cafeteria Christians”, I’ll suggest that you yourself are looking through your own personalized set of rosey red sunglasses that make you take out only what your want to take out and leave what doesn’t help your case behind. I challenge you to give me some of the classic passages that you think Christians neglect and thus choose to believe in a false truth in your mind, or that shows the bible nullifying itself. I’m not here to just try and reveal the truth to you, but I want you to sharpern and quicken my mind for Christ. I offer you this oppurtunity not only to prove your intelligence and wisdom to me but also to convert me to your side. The side that can’t exist without a God, the side that needs God to exist, the side that in the eyes of God is the dumbest of all, but man will uphold as wisdom. I do respect you as well though, because many Christians don’t deal with what you’ve tackled in the passages of the bible and thus this makes them unthinking Christians which in itself goes against the bible. I care for your soul as you care about me knowing your truths, man’s false truth’s (no offense). I’m looking forward to this for two reasons, I know I’m right, but that’s not the important part, the important part is the second reason. You must be told the Truth and respond. I look forward to you showing me to be a “cafeteria christian”:)…..hope to here from you soon…thanks for letting me take up your time…

 

Response to Conrad #001:

CONRAD: “I gurantee you that deep down inside you not only know there is a God, but the one God that gives you the most trouble, the one from Christianity, the one directly associated with Jesus Christ, is the one true God, three in one if you may.”

Is that a money-back guarantee or are there strings and disclaimers attached? Is it one of those 30-day guarantees or are you offering a 10-year, 100,000 mile guarantee? Perhaps even a lifetime guarantee?

Kidding aside, you are suffering from delusions of grandeur. The only reason that Christianity gives me the most trouble is because I live in a predominantly Christian country. If I lived in Baghdad, then we’d be debating the existence of Allah. If I lived in New Delhi, then we’d be debating the existence of Vishnu or one of his many incarnations.

I do not believe in a god. I do not know there is a god, but refuse to believe. Perhaps you should read the section of Atheism Awareness that addresses this specific issue at: Do Atheists Refuse to Believe In God?

CONRAD: “I’ll suggest that you yourself are looking through your own personalized set of rosey red sunglasses that make you take out only what your want to take out and leave what doesn’t help your case behind.”

Actually, unlike most Christians, I don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. There are some interesting things in the sacred texts of all religions – just as there are interesting things in the works of classical authors. In everything that I read I take a little piece or find something interesting. It doesn’t matter who the book is written by or who it is written for.

Thomas Jefferson is a good example of this. In the classic Jesusian sense, he removed the hoopla, nonsense, and metaphysical from the New Testament and wrote his own version of the Bible that embraced the “good” and the “inherent message of Jesus, the teacher.” The Jefferson Bible can be bought at your local bookstore if you’re ever interested in reading it.

CONRAD: “I challenge you to give me some of the classic passages that you think Christians neglect and thus choose to believe in a false truth in your mind, or that shows the bible nullifying itself.”

Those are two separate issues, but let’s tackle them both. Classic passages that Christians neglect.

Christians are staunch anti-abortionists. They claim that it is murder. However, the Bible considers abortion to be a “property crime” and not murder. The penalty for causing a woman to lose her unborn child can be found in Exodus 21:22.

Women are second-class citizens in the Bible. Christians that let their women wear make-up, speak in church, wear jewelry, let their hair hang loose in church, and run the finances are in violation of Biblical law. See I Corinthians 11:3-15 and 14:24-25, or I Timothy 2:11-14 as examples.

If your child is unruly you are supposed to stone him to death – not put him on Ritalin. You can read about how to stone and kill your misbehaving child in Deuteronomy 21:18-21.

And all those Christian daughters that have had premarital sex. they were supposed to be stoned to death, as well. Only virgin girls can get married under Christianity. Of course there’s no mention of men, so apparently men can have all the premarital sex they want without any repercussions. As for the girls that have premarital sex, we should stone them to death in accordance with Deuteronomy 22:13-21.

When Christian soldiers conquer a country, such as the recent invasion of Iraq, why did they not follow the commandments of God? They were supposed to slaughter all the men and boys and keep all the virgin girls for themselves as wives (Numbers 31).

How about all those Christians that go camping on the weekend and pick up firewood on the Sabbath to keep themselves warm? Well, according to Numbers 15, they should be stoned to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

If your wife grabs the genitals of another man in self defense, then her hand is to be cut off. How many Christian men have cut off their wife’s hands after she has used the grab-a-nut defense? Deuteronomy 25:11-12 says the man is supposed to remove the hand of the wife that touched the other man’s testicles.

Stop calling bats flying mammals. All Christians should call bats birds, or at least fowls. According to Leviticus 11:13-19 and Deuteronomy 14:11-18, bats are birds or fowls – not mammals.

When is the last time you performed a bull sacrifice in accordance with Leviticus 1:9? What about all those Christians that rush to the local oyster house after church or to the local Red Lobster on Tuesday’s “all you can eat crab” night? Did you know they are violating Leviticus 11:10, which clearly identify shellfish as an abomination to God?

All those cotton/rayon blends and silk/rayon blends that church-going ladies love to wear are against the law of their God. They’re going to hell for wearing a 50/50 cotton-polyester blend. How do I know this? The Bible tells me so. Leviticus 19:19 clearly states, “Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.” Of course it also says that Christians can’t plant two different crops in the same field and that they can’t mate two different kinds of animals.

Shall I go on or do you want to tackle these first?

CONRAD: “I offer you this oppurtunity not only to prove your intelligence and wisdom to me but also to convert me to your side.”

I don’t want to de-convert you. All I ask is that you honestly look at the information and come to an educated conclusion. Don’t go by what your preacher said as you were growing up. Don’t even listen to me. Read for yourself, both sides of the issue, do the research and find the date, then come to your own educated conclusion.

CONRAD: “I care for your soul as you care about me knowing your truths, man’s false truth’s (no offense).”

No offense taken. You’ll have to do a lot better than that to offend me. ;-)

CONRAD: “You must be told the Truth and respond.”

Do you think you’re the first person to try? Do you think you’re more qualified than the others that have tried and failed before you? I’ve debated a professor of theology and he didn’t make a dent. I’ve debated soothsayers that swore they were speaking from God directly and they didn’t make a dent. Each of them has fallen defeated in the arena of debate or they have given up.

Most of them have tried thinking that I must not know the Bible or have never read it. Most of them have come thinking that their belief will make them succeed, but that is just a setup for failure. To win in this arena you must have knowledge. You must have evidence. If you come in with nothing but your heart on your sleeve and your emotions in sloshing buckets, then you will fail.

I have read your Bible. I have read the sacred texts of other religions. Perhaps you should try to read the texts of other religions? If you’re interested (and you should be if you think you have a chance against me) then you can check many of them out online at http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm. Reading all of these books has reinforced my atheism. Debating the apologists and theocrats has reinforced my atheism. Christian and Islamic terrorists have reinforced my atheism.

I look forward to your challenge and I hope that you are a worthy adversary. I have been disappointed many times before my amateurs that come prepared with only what they have been taught by their church. If you are unwise as to the ways of the world and the religious views of many nations, then you are unprepared. If you are unwise as to the criticisms of your own religion, then you are unprepared. If you have never read your sacred text straight through, then you are unprepared. If you have never taken a real science class, then you are unprepared.

CONRAD: “I look forward to you showing me to be a “cafeteria christian “:)”

I look forward to doing it.

 

Conrad Rebuttal #002:

I have a question and i want your opninion on it. Just curious as to what you think, a person has a ball and is on one side of the table, another person who is you, is on the other side of the table, the person rolls the ball to you across the table, what do you do and why?…ttyl..

 

Response to Conrad #002:

I guess that depends on the mood I’m in. If I’m in a playful mood I will catch the ball and roll it back – beginning a game. If I’m not in the mood, I’ll just let it roll of the table.

I know that from past experience and physics that inertia will bring it to me, provided the forward momentum and inertia can get over the friction of the table surface. If I don’t catch it, gravity will take its toll and cause the ball to fall to the floor, where new inertia will cause it to roll away – meaning I have to get up and go fetch it. So, if I’m lazy, then the most efficient method is to catch the ball before it rolls off the table – less work in the long run, no matter what mood I’m in.

 

Conrad Rebuttal #003:

Hello again, Sorry for the delay, but as I’ve expected you’ve bombarded me with a lot of thoughts and counter thoughts opposed to mine. Rather than trying to give you general thoughts, quick reviews, or answers to all of the things said, I think you would be more appreciative of me thoroughly reviewing all the questions individually and giving them the proper effort needed to adequately answer your remarks. I’ve decided to start with the Old Testament passages you gave me. The first email I’ll be sending will be on the Exodus 21 passage.

BLAIR: “Christians are staunch anti-abortionists. They claim that it is murder. However, the Bible considers abortion to be a “property crime” and not murder. The penalty for causing a woman to lose her unborn child can be found in Exodus 21:22″.

Perhaps you’re merely testing me to see if I’m at all up to the task at hand, but this seemed to be quite easy along with the others you’ve given me, so by no later than tomorrow I’ll be e-mailing you my response with plenty of information for you to digest. Thank you again for taking the time to read what I had to say.

I’m still waiting for the “no later than tomorrow” response. I guess it wasn’t as easy as he thought. ;-)

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